Sarah Mackenzie (00:00:12):
You’re listening to the Read-Aloud Revival Podcast. This is the podcast that helps you make meaningful and lasting connections with your kids through books.
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Hello, everybody. Sarah Mackenzie here with episode 134 of the Read-Aloud Revival Podcast. Today is a little extra special because I’ve pulled a little something from Read-Aloud Revival Premium to share with you. RAR Premium is our online community for families who want to make meaningful and lasting connections with their kids through books.
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One of the things we do there, and we do a lot there actually, Master Classes, which are basically professional development for homeschooling moms, drawing and storytelling workshops for kids, all kinds of good things, but one of those things, the thing I want to talk about today is our Family Book Club. Now we do a Family Book Club every single month in Premium, and we use the Read-Aloud Revival Framework of reading aloud, sharing an experience, and talking about it with every single Family Book Club.
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Now, I’m going to tell you more about that framework, what that looks like, and why it works in a future episode, but, for now, I just want you to know that is the overall framework, the way that we interact with books here at Read-Aloud Revival, and our Premium members get an extra bit of magic because we do that reading aloud, sharing an experience, talking about it with each of our monthly Family Book Clubs, but they get this extra bit of magic because to wrap up each month’s Book Club, we have a live online video stream with the author or illustrator of that month’s book. We call it Author Access, and it truly is a bit of magic because the kids get to ask their questions and then those questions are answered to them directly in real time on a live video stream. It really helps your child create a special bond with the author or illustrator.
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We hear all the time that kids are eager to find other books by those authors and illustrators after they’ve watched an Author Access, after they’ve attended one because they’ll see those books at the library or the bookstore, and they feel like they’re written by their friends. They feel like they know them. In fact, that author or illustrator might have addressed them by name in the hour we spent together at Author Access, which makes it extra special. You can probably imagine the power of this.
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As an example, we read The Giver, and then we got to spend an hour with Lois Lowry. We read Strega Nona, and we got to meet Tomie dePaola. We read The Tale of Desperaux, and got to meet Kate DiCamillo. We read Fablehaven, and got to meet Brandon Mull. We read a book by Mary Pope Osborne. She wrote the Magic Tree House books, and we got to meet her. We read Owl Moon, and got to meet Jane Yolen. Pretty fantastic, right? There’s nothing else quite like it. A lot of our Premium members use these Family Book Clubs and Author Access as a central way of doing literature in their homeschools with kids of all ages.
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We recently got to have Sally Lloyd-Jones on for Author Access, and I thought it would be fun to share that one with you. It was such a good one, and I also wanted you to be able to see what an Author Access is like. You’ll know Sally Lloyd Jones as the author of the beloved Jesus Storybook Bible. That’s my own very favorite children’s Bible. In fact, for our Family Book Club, we read her book Goldfish on Vacation and our Premium members got a Family Book Club Guide to go with it, and we put these out every month for our Family Book Club. So the Family Book Club Guide, it walks you through that Read-Aloud Revival Framework I was talking to you about earlier, the reading aloud, sharing an experience and talking about it. So in each of these monthly Family Book Club Guides, we put ideas for good shared experiences. We have discussion questions, open-ended questions that get a good conversation going with your kids of various ages and all kinds of good stuff. You can print that Family Book Club Guide for this one with Sally Lloyd-Jones because I want you to see what it looks like all together.
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So we’re making that available to you. Our premium members get one of these every single month with our monthly Family Book Club, but for this one with Sally Lloyd Jones, I want you to have it so that you can see how this all works, and you can grab it and print it out at the show notes and those are readaloudrevival.com/134, or you can just text RAR to the number 33777, and then we’ll send it to you that way.
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On the episode of today’s show, I’m going to play that Author Access with Sally Lloyd Jones so that you get a front row seat at what it’s like to do an Author Access, to come to an Author Access.
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Now, it’s fine to listen to on audio. It’s great to listen to an audio, but Sally actually reads aloud two of her books to us, and so I think this one is even better as a video, and that video is available for you to watch in the show notes today. So if you want to grab your kids and enjoy some read-alouds and some time with Sally Lloyd Jones, author of the Jesus Story Book Bible, then you want to go to the show notes, and that’s readaloudrevival.com/134 because this is episode 134, and you can watch the video version, and, that way, your kids can see the illustrations as Sally reads a couple of her books aloud.
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Now this is the replay, obviously, the video replay. Our Premium members get to attend these Premium Author Access events that correlate with the Family Book Club every month live, but then if they miss it or if the time doesn’t work for them or for any reason they can’t come, they get access to all of the recordings, and those are all in our Premium library when they’re Premium members. So they can just come on and watch any recordings that we’ve ever done with all of our author guests that we’ve had in the past, which is fantastic. So you’ll get a good idea of what this looks like by watching today’s very special episode with Sally Lloyd-Jones.
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Now, the kids in premium who attended this live author access, they asked questions about Goldfish on Vacation. That was our Family Book Club pick, but they also ask questions about Sally’s other books, like the Jesus Storybook Bible. I got goosebumps as she answered. Some of these questions are so good. So you want to grab that Family Book Club Guide, again, you can text RAR to 33777 to get it, or you can just go to the show notes at readaloudrevival.com/134, and then you can get that Family Book Club Guide, and you can go and see the video version in those show notes, as well. I think you’re going to love it. So here we go. This is our Author Access event with Sally Lloyd-Jones.
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Sally, welcome to the Read-Aloud Revival. We are just delighted to have you.
Sally L-J (00:07:00):
It’s so great to be with you. Thank you, everyone, for tuning in. I’m so excited to be here.
Sarah Mackenzie (00:07:05):
Well, one of the questions that I love so much was from [Juliano 00:07:07], who’s 13 and wanted to know how you first, because Goldfish on Vacation is based on a true story. Right?
Sally L-J (00:07:16):
Yeah.
Sarah Mackenzie (00:07:16):
So how do you, a completely true made-up story I think is the way you say it. Right?
Sally L-J (00:07:19):
Yes. [crosstalk 00:07:20]
Sarah Mackenzie (00:07:19):
“So how do you know about this story?” he asked and, “What was your inspiration for writing it?”
Sally L-J (00:07:24):
Which is a great question. I happened upon it. I was in New York because I live in New York, and at the near where I live is the fountain, and I would keep noticing this man who would come on Saturdays and clean it. So I noticed that, and he was cleaning away the ivy and clearing away the garbage, and it was when he put the sign up, when he put up the sign that said, and it’s literally what I put in the book, “Hamilton Water Garden coming in two or three weeks. Calling all goldfish looking for a summer home,” when he put that up, I was like, and I’ve learned if I have any kind of reaction like that, I need to pay attention because there’s something about that sign that just made me feel like, “Well, this is interesting, and then when the whole thing happened, I just was like, “Oh, I think maybe this might be a story.” So I’ve learned that I write it down in a notebook. So that’s my biggest tip to any budding writers or artists is keep a notebook and a pencil. It’s like having a camera on you, and you’re never going to lose an idea because you think, “Oh, I’ll remember that,” but my experience is you don’t. Well, maybe when you’re younger, you do, but when you’re older you certainly don’t. So I wrote it down.
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But do you know what? It took me at least 10 years before I finished that story. It was sort of there mulling around in my head. I didn’t know if it was a picture book. I didn’t know if it was a big, longer book, and so I just kept leaving it, and then, one day, I just picked it up, and it came together.
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So the story about the man, I found at the end, kind of near my street, but the story about the three children, they live in England, and they’re my nieces and nephews, so I pretended that they lived near my street, which is wishful thinking. That’s how the story is a completely true made-up story.
Sarah Mackenzie (00:09:06):
That leads me to another question, which we got from several kids. I know that CJ, who’s 11, Owen, who’s five, and, [Catherine 00:00:09:10], who’s 12, all asked, “How did you come up with the children’s names and why are all the children’s names letters?”
Sally L-J (00:09:18):
I know. Well, if you look at the book, I think I dedicated it to … I’m just going to check in case I’m wrong. Well, the lovely thing about being a writer is you get to dedicate books to people. It’s right at the back of the book. It says, “For H, Little O and Baby M, from me.” So that’s my dedication and the illustrator’s dedication is to someone else, but H stands for Harry and Little O stands for Olivia and Baby M stands for Emily, and they’re my nieces and nephews. So that’s why I, and I called them, “H, O, and Baby M.” I don’t know why. It just came out like that. I thought it gave them a little bit of privacy in case they were fed up with being in all my books.
Sarah Mackenzie (00:09:59):
I hardly think. I bet that they’re very [crosstalk 00:10:03].
Sally L-J (00:10:03):
They were very thrilled. In fact, Emily, who’s actually, she’s 17 now, which is a dreadful thing. No, I mean I love 17-year-olds, but [inaudible 00:10:11] it takes that long for a picture book to come out. So I’ve always felt like, oh, by the time I’d written it, my nieces and nephews are too old, but she, when she got this book, she dropped everything, went up to her room and read it and was thrilled with it. So that made me happy, and that goes back to that idea that you never grow out of picture books. Sarah and I, we really believe you never grow out of picture books.
Sarah Mackenzie (00:10:33):
Yeah, because we were just talking about that before we came on. Weren’t we? Yeah.
Sally L-J (00:10:37):
I wanted to tell you another fun fact because a picture book is a story told in two languages. So you’re only getting half the story when you listen to me because the illustrator’s not here. So you only get half the story if you look at the words and you don’t see the pictures, but the illustrator told me that this is one of his favorite books, which is lovely. I don’t think he says that to everyone, but he said he particularly loved the children, and I said to him, because we managed to email each other. Usually you don’t get to talk to the illustrator, but we somehow managed to be in touch with each other, and I said to him, “ow thrilled I was with the whole book,” and then I said to him, “I don’t know how you did it because I don’t think you saw any pictures of my nieces and nephews, but they actually look like my nieces and nephews when they were that age.” Isn’t that mysterious?
Sarah Mackenzie (00:11:21):
Is that right? Oh, my goodness. That is [crosstalk 00:11:23]. That is fun. Let’s see. Well, this is a fun story. So speaking of O, Little H and Baby M, Ruth, [Alanna 00:11:32], Claire, they all want to know if you think that the fish that they caught at the very end were really theirs.
Sally L-J (00:11:38):
Well, that’s the question, isn’t it? I mean the grandfather says they are, but I don’t know. They might be. Would that be a better story if they were? Would it be really sad if they weren’t? Or maybe I think what if they weren’t that time. What about next summer? Perhaps then they are. You see, because this happened for several summers, so I don’t really know the answer to that question, and that’s the thing where I think you probably know just as much as me, and you can’t really tell from the pictures, can you, because they all look the same. So I think that I like to think that the goldfish would have been happy regardless and maybe the children, too, because they get another chance to go and meet up at the fountain the next summer.
Sarah Mackenzie (00:12:17):
Yeah, that’s right.
Sally L-J (00:12:17):
It’s a good question, though, isn’t it?
Sarah Mackenzie (00:12:19):
It is a good question and I love the question you followed it up with, which was would it be a better story if they were the same fish or would it be just as wonderful if they weren’t? I love that.
Sally L-J (00:12:28):
Maybe, that could be the beginning of your own story because maybe you make something up depending on what you think the answer to that question is. I haven’t been a very good answerer of questions because I think the thing I really believe is a story isn’t an answer. It’s a question. It leaves you with, if you come away from a story with lots of questions, that’s the best kind of story, but if you come away from a story and it’s answered all the questions and you didn’t have a single question, that probably means it’s very boring, really.
Sarah Mackenzie (00:12:55):
That’s so good. Courtney, are you writing these things down? I hope you are writing these things down. [inaudible 00:13:01] that I want to write down that you said.
Sally L-J (00:13:02):
[inaudible 00:13:02] another question I loved about the names of the fishes. Someone asked about the names of the fishes.
Sarah Mackenzie (00:13:07):
Yes. Let’s see. Oh, yes. Was it Natalie’s question, who wanted to know how you pronounce [Fist 00:13:12]
Sally L-J (00:13:12):
Oh, oh, fist is a good … I pronounce it fist, but perhaps other people would pronounce it differently, but those names were the names that my nieces and nephews … Harry called his fish Barracuda. So I borrowed that. My sister had a fish called Patch who came to an unhappy ending, unfortunately. A Lot of goldfish have unhappy endings, don’t they?
Sarah Mackenzie (00:13:32):
Yeah.
Sally L-J (00:13:34):
But we’ll move along quickly. So Patch and then Fist is a friend of mine who has has a [inaudible 00:13:40] Fist, and I loved Fist, so I just sort of borrowed these favorite names. That’s the lovely thing about writing is you can just do whatever you like really, and you don’t have to have a set, you don’t have to have a camera team, you just can write things down. You could write, “There’s an orchestra of 50 people, and they’re all sitting on steps,” and I said this joke to my friend who’s an illustrator, I said, she said, “Do not give me a picture book that says, ‘There are orchestra of 50 people sitting on steps because then I have to draw them,” but if you’re the writer, you just get to say it and you don’t have to do the drawing. Isn’t that fun?
Sarah Mackenzie (00:14:13):
It’s hilarious, which is probably the real reason that illustrators don’t want all those art notes, right?
Sally L-J (00:14:20):
Uh huh (affirmative). Exactly. They don’t want to be told I’ve got to draw lots of violins or something.
Sarah Mackenzie (00:14:26):
Exactly. So Eva, who’s six, wants to know if there are still goldfish in Hamilton Fountain.
Sally L-J (00:14:31):
I wish. I wish. They were there for about 10 to 12 years, but then the man who was doing it, Brad, which I haven’t told you, I actually met up with him. We’re friends. We met at the Fountain on the day the book came out and had a celebration. So he was so thrilled because it went and it happened for about 12 years. Then he moved to Brooklyn, so he wasn’t living on the Upper West Side anymore, and he was doing it just as a volunteer. So it hasn’t happened again, but I’m sort of hoping that maybe someone will read the book and want to do it again because it seems like it should happen.
Sarah Mackenzie (00:15:02):
Yeah, I wonder, too. I wondered when I was looking through the book and I was … I think in Your Family Book Club Guide, kids, you’ll see a picture of Sally and Brad, I think, at the fountain, and I thought that, too. I thought, “I wonder if somebody will read this story and think, ‘We should do this again. We should bring the … We should let the goldfish go on vacation.'”
Sally L-J (00:15:20):
Isn’t that fun? I think the thing that’s so lovely for Brad is he did this for 10 years, and then no one ever heard of it, but because it’s a wonderful story in the sense that in terms of the true story, because it’s the power of one person to make this huge difference. He did one thing, he was generous with his time and had this lovely vision and out of that came all this joy, and then I got an idea for a book. Then we did it and now all these children are coming back to the fountain to read their book at the fountain. So it’s fun how one person can make a big difference.
Sarah Mackenzie (00:15:51):
So that’s a question I have for you. When you’ve learned about Brad’s story, did he call it a Vacation for Goldfish, or is that something that you added in?
Sally L-J (00:15:59):
Well, I did it. I wanted to call it Goldfish on Holiday because I’m British. In Britain, holiday means vacation, but if you use the word holiday in America, it means memorial-
Sarah Mackenzie (00:16:09):
Christmas.
Sally L-J (00:16:09):
[crosstalk 00:16:10]. I couldn’t use the word holiday. So I came up with that, but he was so thrilled because it kept the story alive for him. He didn’t like was, he said, “I don’t really wear the orange jumpsuit, and I don’t have a big rear end.” He used another way, but I won’t be using it on this Read-Aloud Revival.
Sarah Mackenzie (00:16:31):
You said, “Well, that’s creative license.”
Sally L-J (00:16:34):
That’s totally up to the illustrator. Oh, there was another question, wasn’t there, about the illustrator?
Sarah Mackenzie (00:16:40):
I think there was, yes. Let’s see, where was that one? Here I thought I was so organized. Oh, yes. Anna, who’s 11, said, “How do you work with the illustrators of your books? Do you tell them what you think the pictures should look like or do they read the words you write and come up with illustrations on their own?”
Sally L-J (00:16:59):
It’s the last one because, I mean, mostly what I do is I am in charge of writing the text. I have to, I mean I have a sense of vaguely how many pages and stuff like that, but then I send it to my editor and they mark it up, like you children get at school with all red marks and scribbles, and it looks dreadful, but it gets the book better. So I probably did about 12 revisions to this book, so that’s good to know, isn’t it? Or maybe less. Some books are more, some books are 22 revisions. This one came a bit easier, but then it’s the publisher and the art director who contact … They choose the illustrator, they brief the illustrated. They send the illustrator the manuscript, and if the illustrator loves it, they say, “Yes, please. I’ll do it,” and, fortunately, for us, Leo said, “Yes,” and I didn’t have anything to do with what they gave him or what I see is finished art, but because it’s so good, I’m just thrilled. I just go, “Oh, look at that. Isn’t that amazing?” So I was so thrilled.
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The other thing to know about his art, I don’t know if you know the [inaudible 00:18:04] books, Here is New York.
Sarah Mackenzie (00:18:07):
Yes I do, and I think we’ve had them on a couple of booklets. Is there one about Ireland?
Sally L-J (00:18:13):
Yes. Those will be the links you have to put up in there, lots of them, so I’ve given you lots of work, but a really fun project is to look at those books and then look at Goldfish and see what the designer and the illustrator were doing because, if you notice on Goldfish, it’s not shiny. The cover isn’t shiny. It’s very what they call matte, and if you look at those books that [inaudible 00:18:33] was doing, he was doing it in the fifties and sixties, they’re all matte. So the whole book is sort of nostalgic, if you know what I mean, because it’s pointing back to a time, fifties, sixties, and his style of art makes you think of that era, and what’s lovely is the designer, and designers are so important on books because they’re invisible. You don’t even notice the design if it works, but the design is huge. So the design is the typeface, so like fat typeface, and then the fact that it’s a matte cover, those are all choices of the designer and the publisher, and that, combined with the illustrator, made it look like it was a book that’s been here forever, which made it feel like a classic, which is what the whole book kind of feels like.
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How a book is made is not just the words. If it was just me, we wouldn’t be sitting there talking. No one would read a book if it was just the words. I [inaudible 00:19:27] tell people that because it’s just really important to notice all the things that go into a book. I love design, and I always like to give a shout-out to the designer.
Sarah Mackenzie (00:19:36):
Oh that’s a … I’ve never actually thought of having a designer on the podcast or coming to Read-Aloud Revival, but that would be so interesting.
Sally L-J (00:19:44):
I mean, the person who designed this, you should have on.
Sarah Mackenzie (00:19:46):
Okay.
Sally L-J (00:19:47):
She would come, and she’s amazing.
Sarah Mackenzie (00:19:50):
This is one of the illustrations I loved, especially because it does that thing where you see the all … He’s telling the children about what happened in the past and, of course, that’s in black and white, and then they’re in color, and it’s brilliant, really.
Sally L-J (00:20:03):
It is very clever, isn’t it?
Sarah Mackenzie (00:20:05):
Yeah.
Sally L-J (00:20:05):
The illustrator is telling half the story, and he’s a … If I hadn’t have had a great illustrator, again, we wouldn’t be talking about anything. It’s a lovely teamwork. That’s why I love picture books. I think of them like a little play. You know how in a play, it’s in a book, it’s in a limited space and everything has to work together to tell the story, and that’s the same in a picture book, and when you open up a picture book, like this is orange, so it’s telling you something. It’s like the curtains and the theater or it’s like the titles in a film. Maybe I’m getting too technical, but, anyway, it’s giving a clue. It’s a little orange. Well, what’s orange? Goldfish are orange, aren’t they? That’s a simpler … I’ve got it in Hats Off to Mr. Pockles! We’ve got different endpapers. In Hats Off to Mr. Pockles!, we’ve got lots of hats, which clue you in that this book is going to be all about hats.
Sarah Mackenzie (00:20:54):
My twins are five and a half, well, almost six, and they love those endpapers because they sit there and pick which one they’d wear at the beginning and [crosstalk 00:21:01].
Sally L-J (00:21:02):
Anyway, that’s a bit of a long answer to something no one had really asked, did they? They didn’t ask.
Sarah Mackenzie (00:21:06):
Oh, my goodness. It’s so good.
Sally L-J (00:21:09):
Tell I love picture books.
Sarah Mackenzie (00:21:10):
Well, one of the things we’re trying to do in our Book Club Guides, and I don’t know if we had this section in yours because I think we just are trying to develop it, is this little section on looking closely at the form of the picture book, at the typeface and at the way that the art director has put together the different parts of the story, and so I had never actually thought of the endpapers being like a curtain in a play, but that it makes so much sense. I love that.
Sally L-J (00:21:34):
Also, the turn of the page is so fun. That’s why eBooks don’t quite do it. You have the actual physical turn of the pages. Dramatic.
Sarah Mackenzie (00:21:41):
Yes.
Sally L-J (00:21:42):
That turn can be a … It’s all about pacing. Anyway, it’s very fascinating, and when something’s done well you don’t notice it. It shouldn’t look hard. If it looks hard, then it’s not right.
Sarah Mackenzie (00:21:52):
If it looks effortless, then you know it wasn’t, right?
Sally L-J (00:21:56):
Yes. Usually, not always right.
Sarah Mackenzie (00:21:59):
That’s true. That’s true. So I love this. Ethan, who’s seven, says, “Has this book won any medals or awards? If not, I will cross my fingers that you get a medal.”
Sally L-J (00:22:10):
Oh, Ethan, you are so kind. I don’t think it’s won any medals, but I love that idea. But you know what? I was thinking about this. I love the idea of winning medals, but your question probably means more to me than a medal because I write the books. I don’t write them. I’m really just … You know what? You are my bosses, truthfully. All of you children who’ve tuned in are the people I work for. So when I get messages like that, or I get people saying, “I really like this,” or even the questions you were asking, those to me mean the world because it means the people I’ve written it for love the story. That’s my job. So I try and remember that. Do you know we all have bad days, don’t we, but you have to remember what made you want to do it in the beginning, and the thing that made me want to write in the beginning was children and wanting to make them laugh, and because I’m a child inside, too, I have the same sense of humor, so I didn’t ever grow up really.
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… my child inside too. I had the same sense of humor so I didn’t ever grow up really. So I always remember that when I’m having a bad day.
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I love medals. I would never say no to a medal. But really, the most important thing is to know that the people you wrote it for loved the book. So, thank you these questions are wonderful.
Sarah Mackenzie (00:23:20):
Aren’t they good? Here’s another really good one.
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Nico who’s eight, and William who’s eight, they both want to know: how long did it take you to write Goldfish on Vacation? Was it easy to write or was it tiring?
Sally L-J (00:23:30):
Oh, I love that. And it sounds like you two might be writers. I don’t know. Or illustrators, perhaps. So I find … I don’t know if you find this … but some books come quickly and some take longer. A picture book … Well this one, as I told you, I sort of had the idea about 10 years before I finished the book, but I wasn’t working on it for 10 years or anything.
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I just had the idea, I put it aside in my notebook. And then I was trying to work out, “Well what is it?” Because before I could start writing it, I had to kind of …. I started writing it and then it was too long, and then I put it to one side. I was thinking at that point, maybe it was a chapter book, and then I put it to one side. So it probably took … It’s like a seed, I think of a story like this, like a seed. Sometimes you work on it and then you push it to one side, and then in your subconscious it’s kind of growing but you don’t know that. And then you go back to it and you just have to trust.
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So it wasn’t tiring, it was a little bit of a puzzle. So I kept puzzling about what format. Was it a picture book? Was it … And once I knew it was a picture book, then it started fitting into place.
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But for instance, then I had my editor … And so in fact this book, I didn’t have a lot of edits on it, but the beginning of the book is quite unusual because it happens, it starts before the title page. So you get, you open up the book, you got the end pages that I went on and on about, and then you got the beginning of the book, and then you’ve got the title.
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Well that’s very unusual, but that was my editor because she said “I love that beginning, but how does it fit?” And it’s brilliant that she said, “Let’s put it ahead, like a little bit of a prologue before the actual story.” So the thing about this writing is everyone needs an editor, because you can do so much and then you need someone … You have teachers, who, when you give a story and they’ll say, they’ll give you comments.
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Well I’m sorry to have to break this news to you, but you never grow out of that. If you want to be a writer or an illustrator you’re still going to have those comments. But what you start to realize is, they make, if you’ve got a good editor, they make you look great. So why wouldn’t you want to look great? You want to look clever and you’ve got your name on the book. So if you’ve got a good editor, you always want to be able to be edited.
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And they’ll say things that I won’t agree with. And usually when I get their comments, I go into a rage, not a really nasty rage, but like a tantrum in my apartment. And I can’t look at it, and I think they’re just dreadful, and I can’t possibly … For about three days I’m stomping around and then I … And I don’t talk to them. I mean I wouldn’t get in a rage in person. I sort of just do it to myself or maybe my friends.
(00:26:01):
Then I come back to the manuscript and I look calmly at what they’ve said, and I can kind of see it. But sometimes there are things I just don’t agree with and I’ll say, “No, I don’t agree.” And then usually that’s fine. But it’s never easy to get edits, but you look better when you get them.
Sarah Mackenzie (00:26:15):
I remember Kate DiCamillo saying that when she gets her edits, she stomps around the house and says, mutters under her breath, “If you knew how to write a novel, then why didn’t you write one?” Not to them, but you know … And then the same thing, it’s still, she’s calmer a few days later and looks at them and thinks, “Okay, I can do most of these.”
(00:26:35):
Can you think of any examples or could you share any, I don’t know, any examples of a time when they suggested an edit and you thought, “No, I don’t think so.”
Sally L-J (00:26:43):
Of course I can’t think of a single thing now, can I?
Sarah Mackenzie (00:26:45):
Because I put you on the spot.
Sally L-J (00:26:47):
Well I tried to push back on Vacation. I wanted [inaudible 00:26:51]. I had to let go of that.
Sarah Mackenzie (00:26:53):
But Goldfish on Holiday does sound better. It sounds …
Sally L-J (00:26:56):
It’s more, but it doesn’t say what we wanted to say, so I had to [inaudible 00:27:00] it.
Sarah Mackenzie (00:27:01):
Right.
Sally L-J (00:27:02):
I don’t think there was … On this book, it was strangely straightforward. This was an unusual book.
(00:27:08):
Oh, Mr. Pockles. Okay, Mr. Pockles, I had, this is an example where I had a Panda called Lady Satsuma. But pandas are Chinese, and satsuma is Japanese. And so the editor said to me, “I think we’re going to get in trouble because that’s not really respectful.” I hadn’t even thought of that.
(00:27:31):
And this was like the day …. I had to come up with a different name on that day, and I was like stomping around quietly my apartment, or tromping around New York, like, “How am I supposed to come up … That’s such a good name.” I was just in a rage. So then I’m walking around, and I did a quick prayer. I mean, these are the kinds of prayers I pray, “God please help me come up with a name for panda that’s kind of funny.”
(00:27:52):
I’m just wandering around New York and I go past this hotel that’s called the Fitzwilliam. And I thought, “Well if I put Fitz ahead of the name, that could be funny.” So instead of Lady Satsuma, I came up with Lady Coco Fitz-Tulip. Lady Coco Fitz-Tulip is a much better name.
(00:28:10):
So it was a lesson in … I didn’t want to change it, and in the end I’m really glad I got … The editor pushed me to do a better job of finding a better name. So that was a good example of sometimes … So no one knew I was walking around New York trying to name a panda. That was my entire day’s work.
Sarah Mackenzie (00:28:32):
That’s a good example of how we never know what someone else is going through.
Sally L-J (00:28:36):
You have no idea. If I think of another one where I pushed back and I got my own way, I’ll tell you. I can’t think.
Sarah Mackenzie (00:28:44):
Okay.
(00:28:44):
I like this question from Katherine, who’s six. We talked, one of the questions in our book club guide was to think about who the main character is, which is a little tricky in this one because there’s so many characters.
(00:28:54):
So we’re curious to know who you think the main character is, who you were writing as the main characters?
Sally L-J (00:29:00):
Well, again, I might not answer it completely because I think it may be up to the reader.
Sarah Mackenzie (00:29:06):
That’s a good question actually. You don’t think there’s just, “Well no, this is the main character.” Because [crosstalk 00:29:11]-
Sally L-J (00:29:12):
I think stories are cleverer than even the writer. I think the story is cleverer than the writer. There’s a mystery to writing where you, your job is to get out of the way and let the story through. And I didn’t really realize that … People have said to me what they love about the book is that there are two strong male, beautiful male role models. There’s the man at the fountain, there’s the grandfather.
(00:29:34):
Well I didn’t consciously say, “Ah, now I’m going to make some good male role …” I didn’t. I just followed the story, and I didn’t even know just that I didn’t have parents in it. But of course the parents are off working probably. I’ve always loved the relationship with the grandfather with his grandchildren or grandmother. I think that’s very sweet. But I think to me, probably for me, the main one is the fountain man because he’s the one who made all the difference.
(00:30:01):
But you could say it’s the children because it’s the children’s experience, isn’t it? So I’m not … Or it might be the goldfish. Maybe it’s the … I mean the story title says goldfish. It might be the goldfish. See I’m not answering any of your questions very well, am I?
Sarah Mackenzie (00:30:15):
Well no, I love that because one of the things what I think … As we’re talking with our kids about books … and moms who are here, maybe you’ll like, maybe this is an experience of yours too … sometimes we worry that we’re not giving the right, we don’t know the right answer ourselves, so we don’t know how to ask the question.
(00:30:29):
But what you’re demonstrating for us right now is that there’s not really exactly the right answer. And there’s just more questions, which is kind of the purpose. Is just to [inaudible 00:30:36].
Sally L-J (00:30:37):
Yeah. What I would love is if it, if you’ve got those questions, you could decide what happens next or what happens in the next summer, or you can decide who you think the main character is.
(00:30:48):
But I think there are lots in here that could, you could … You know.
Sarah Mackenzie (00:30:51):
Yeah. Well, let’s … I have some questions about The Jesus Storybook Bible, and then a bunch of others too.
(00:30:56):
But maybe, do want to do a little read aloud time first?
Sally L-J (00:30:58):
[inaudible 00:30:59]?
Sarah Mackenzie (00:30:59):
Yes.
Sally L-J (00:30:59):
Yes, okay.
(00:31:00):
Has anyone ever heard, before they read this book, had anyone heard of goldfish going on vacation? I never had either, but that’s what happened one summer.
(00:31:09):
Sometimes it’s hard being a goldfish. You dream of growing fat and exploring coral reefs. But instead, here you are in a bowl going round and round in circles. And sometimes it’s hard being a child in the summer in the city. All your friends leave and there’s no one to play with. You dream of escaping the steamy heat too, but instead, here you are in an apartment going round and round in circles.
(00:31:34):
But sometimes, well, something happens to [inaudible 00:31:37] all that. Goldfish on Vacation.
(00:31:41):
In a small apartment, in a tall, round building by a park, next to a river in the middle of a big city, there lived three children, H, Little O, and Baby EM. In a small bowl, next to a lamp, in the middle of a table, beside the curtains in the small apartment, there lived three goldfish, Barracuda, Patch and Fiss.
(00:32:01):
An old fountain stood at the end of their street. It was broken and covered in ivy. No one used it anymore except to throw garbage in. But the children thought it was beautiful. On top of the fountain there perched, as if he just landed or was just about to fly off, a magnificent stone eagle with out-stretched wings.
(00:32:21):
Grandpa said that the same people who built the famous Grand Central Station built the fountain, and in the olden days before cars horses drank from it. But when people got cars they didn’t need horses, or the fountain and they stopped taking care of it. The children felt sad for the fountain and the eagle.
(00:32:40):
Then one early summer day, a sign appeared: “Coming in two weeks. Calling all goldfish looking for a summer home.”
(00:32:51):
The children rushed home to tell their fish, “You’re going on vacation.” Barracuda stared with his big fish eyes. Fiss blew big Fiss bubbles. And Patch sank slowly down to the bottom of the bowl.
(00:33:04):
“See? H said. “They can’t wait.”
(00:33:08):
Grandpa rushed into the kitchen and on the big calendar on the wall, next to June 28, he wrote, “Goldfish on vacation.” But the children didn’t need a calendar to remember. They were already counting the days. Every morning they rushed to the window and so did Grandpa. And every morning they watched a man at the fountain.
(00:33:30):
One morning he was cleaning, the next morning he was scrubbing and scraping. Another morning he pulled ivy off the eagle and filled the fountain with clear, cold water. He put in tall reeds and then lily pads. And then one morning, the children couldn’t see him. They couldn’t see him because, because of all the children. The children, and children, and children, crowding around him, all of them waiting to drop off that little fish children.
(00:33:58):
[inaudible 00:10:59],” cheered H, Little O, and Baby Em.
(00:34:03):
And it was in no time they were making their way slowly down the big staircase, and out the front door. Grandpa leading away, then Little O with her net, then Baby Em with the fish food, then H with the ball, and Barracuda, and Patch, and Fiss, in a wonderful goldfish parade.
(00:34:19):
Out in the street, everywhere they looked, there were goldfish parents, just like them, with their goldfish.
(00:34:26):
When at last, it was their turn at the fountain, H, and Baby Em, and Little O told their fish, “Goodbye and see you soon, and don’t be homesick.”
(00:34:36):
Then the man helped them lower the bowl underwater. At first, the fish hung back in the bowl, until in a flash of light, they darted and were gone. The water shone in the shadow of the eagle’s wings and the children saw glistening in the sunlight, swimming in the clear, cool pool, sudden glimpses of hidden treasure. Fish after golden fish.
(00:34:59):
All through the hot summer, H, Little O, and Baby Em stopped by to say hello to their goldfish, and so did the other goldfish parents. Soon all the children looked forward to meeting each other at the fountain. Every day they played together. And every day Grandpa came and put his chair down and chatted with the children who sat and listened.
(00:35:18):
And then he told them stories of those hot August days long ago when he was a boy, and how all the children who couldn’t leave the city would jump and splash in the fountain. And then the children wished that they were those children jumping in.
(00:35:34):
Before they knew it, it was the end of the summer. The man told the goldfish parents that the only way to catch their fish was to come in the fountain, to wade into the water with their nets. And so all the children took off their sandals, jumped, and splashed, and laughed in the fountain. And then Grandpa took off his sandals too, and rolled up his trousers and paddled. And he said it was like those days long ago when he was a boy.
(00:36:01):
And the children could hardly even recognize their goldfish. They looked like completely different fish.
(00:36:08):
“Are they really out fish?” asked Little O, as they headed home.
(00:36:12):
“Oh yes, I’m absolutely certain they’re our fish,” said Grandpa, who really wasn’t at all certain they were.
(00:36:18):
“They look so fat and happy,” said H.
(00:36:21):
“Of course,” said Grandpa. “That’s what a vacation will do for you. Anyway, who says you have to leave the city to have a vacation?”
(00:36:29):
And the children laughed because they knew it was true. And so the goldfish, who may have been Barracuda, and Patch, and Fiss, or some other goldfish altogether, went back to being fish in a bowl. And the children went back to being children in school.
(00:36:45):
Until the next summer when Hamilton Fountain would once again be filled with lily pads, and weeds, and shining water, and golden fish, and children.
(00:36:56):
The End.
(00:36:57):
And then right at the end there’s the author’s note, which you can read to find out more about what really … About the true made up stories.
(00:37:07):
And another question I want to put to you children, because I’m going to leave it with you, I wonder if the fountain man reminds you of anyone else? If you love The Jesus Storybook Bible, have a think about that. Someone who came and mended things that were broken, someone who saw something abandoned and made it beautiful. I wonder if there’s someone who might, you might be reminding yourself of. And that’s all I’m going to say.
Sarah Mackenzie (00:37:30):
All right, let’s ask some questions about The Jesus Storybook Bible, which I should’ve grabbed, because like I said, I think we have six copies or something in our house.
Sally L-J (00:37:41):
[inaudible 00:37:41] sweet.
Sarah Mackenzie (00:37:41):
Jane who’s eight, and Nora who’s 11, want to know how you chose which stories to put into The Jesus Storybook Bible?
Sally L-J (00:37:50):
That’s a really good question. It’s a very hard one to decide because there’s so many stories in the Bible.
(00:37:57):
But the thing that helped me, because often what helps you is limits. So for instance, did you know Dr. Seuss, when he was told to write an early reader book, he was given a list of words. So he had to limit. And the first two words on that list were “cat” and “hat.” So sometimes the very limit makes it work.
(00:38:15):
So for me the limit was, it’s a children’s book. So it had to be not too heavy, so only could have so many pages. We also knew it had to be illustrated enough, so you could only have so many stories. So I only had 44 stories I could have. I also then knew I needed to tell the whole story across the whole Bible. So it had to be one big story. I had to have, there are certain stories you have to have, like the Creation, the fall, Noah, because there’s so many animals, and they’re so good to illustrate.
(00:38:43):
So there are lots of ways you choose a story. So that didn’t leave that many. I knew I wanted to have a Paul. I needed to have the whole scope of the Bible, and I wanted to end with Revelation. It probably left me, truthfully, made … And I wanted a parable. I wanted a healing story. It maybe left me three I could choose. I could’ve chosen Ruth, but I ended up choosing Leah and Rachel. The reason I chose that, Robert Frost I think, was the one who said, a poet who said,”No tears in the writer, no tears in the reader.”
(00:39:13):
My niece was about three at the time and she was all in the world of fairytales. And I wonder if there’s some people listening who might still be in that world of fairytales. I love fairytales. But she was about three and she was coming down to breakfast wearing a tiara and a ballgown, and singing. But she was in a playgroup and they were calling her names, and it broke my heart. I just felt sad and I thought, “She’s going to grow up and think, ‘Well, these fairytales just aren’t true.'”
(00:39:36):
And then the thought broke through, “No, but what if her longing for fairytales to be true, for a prince to come, for a hero, maybe they are true? They’re just pointing to the true Gospel, the true fairytale of the Gospel.” And I wrote Leah and Rachel for my niece Ellie, because I wanted to know God calls her a princess. Instead of what those bullies were saying to her, I wanted her to hear what God had to say. So I wrote it because it moved me.
(00:40:02):
So that, sometimes I think you have to … No, always I think, you must write from the place that moves you because then it will move the reader. So that’s the long answer to your very clever question.
(00:40:14):
And another part of it is, it’s an illustrated book, so I had to choose … We had to have Daniel in the lion’s den, we had to have Jonah because these are incredible illustrations. There are some stories that you couldn’t really have because they’re too complicated and you couldn’t get them into the short … Every story had 500 words, so some you just couldn’t fit in.
Sarah Mackenzie (00:40:33):
What I love about, well one of the things I love about The Jesus Storybook Bible, is how it helps me as an adult reader who’s heard these stories my entire life, see the story fresh and new, in a different way.
(00:40:45):
So a little story for you, Sally, that I’ve never told you before, I don’t think, is that I was at … One of my daughters had a piano recital, and a sweet lady who’d come and help me with my twins when they were first born from our church, she came to the recital too. So she was sitting there with one of my twins on her lap, listening to the recital, and they were looking at their Jesus Storybook Bibles. The twins were maybe three at the time. They were looking at their Bibles during the recital, and she started leaning over her shoulder, and I saw her looking and reading, and starting to read and then really starting to read.
(00:41:13):
When we left the recital she said, “Can I borrow this?” And I said, “Yes.” And she took it and she was reading from it at her Bible study group, with all adults because she had the same experience I do when I read it, which is, “Oh my goodness. I feel like that’s the first time I’ve read that story.” And it’s the, really it’s [crosstalk 00:41:30]-
Sally L-J (00:41:29):
That’s so wonderful. That’s so wonderful to hear.
Sarah Mackenzie (00:41:32):
Evelyn’s seven and wants to know what caused you to decide to write the Storybook Bible in the first place?
Sally L-J (00:41:39):
Oh, Evelyn, that’s a good question.
(00:41:40):
Well, when I was about, a little bit younger than you … I became a Christian since I was very little. My parents told me the story, so there was never a time I didn’t know Jesus loved me, and He was my best friend. But I really wasn’t quite so sure about God because I thought … I’d read stories, and I was about six when I was thinking this, so a little bit younger than you, but probably seven as well.
(00:41:59):
I was thinking, “Yeah, I know Jesus loves me. I think God isn’t pleased with me because I’m not brave like David. I could never fight a giant.” Or I’d be thinking, “Well I’m not perfect. How can I … I’m not doing it right, so God can be pleased with me.”
(00:42:12):
So I had this idea that God was this person who has lots of rules I had to keep so He would love me, and that I had to behave a certain way, like the heroes of the Bible or He wouldn’t love me. And so I had somehow missed what the whole Bible is about because it’s not about me and what I’m supposed to be doing, it’s about what God has done because He loves me.
(00:42:32):
So I wanted to write it for myself at your age and for people like you to know, first of all, you have to know that God loves you and He loved you from the beginning of time, so it had nothing to do with what you were doing. He loves you and He won’t never stop loving you. And once you know that, then everything changes because then if someone loves you like that, you want to please them.
(00:42:55):
So that’s why I wrote it because I wanted children to not think the way I thought, which was that God was out to sort of punish me, and that I had to keep rules for Him to love me.
Sarah Mackenzie (00:43:04):
Yeah. There are rules [inaudible 00:43:06] the Bible, like a rule book, you’re looking at it like a love letter, I guess.
Sally L-J (00:43:10):
Exactly. And I mean, there are rules, and they’re to bless us, they’re to help us live life the best way. But you have to start with love and then go to the, you have to know your love, don’t you?
Sarah Mackenzie (00:43:19):
Let’s see. You might have answered this, I’m not sure if he did or not.
(00:43:22):
But Gideon who’s nine, wants to know what your favorite, … If you have a favorite Bible story, what is it?
Sally L-J (00:43:27):
Well Gideon, you’ve got a very good name and I do love Gideon … See, I couldn’t fit Gideon in, which I love Gideon. I did get Gideon into Thoughts to Make Your Heart Sing. He’s in there and I love him in there. Because he’s a mighty man of valor, isn’t he, Gideon? It’s a great name.
(00:43:44):
But I don’t know. That’s very hard, isn’t it? Because I think children say it best, when you say to them, you always say to children, “What’s your favorite this or that?” And they go “They’re all my favorite.” So I think at different times, they …
(00:43:58):
I think one of my, one of the hardest stories to write in The Jesus Storybook Bible was Joseph because there was so much plot to fit in, and I had 500 words and I was struggling with it. This wise writer said to me, “Well, no one will ever know that was the hardest.” And sure enough, no one’s ever come up to me and said, “Well, really that one was so hard obviously to write.” No, you don’t … It’s just, it was hard for me to write.
(00:44:19):
But no, I think they’re all so powerful when you really … I’m so lucky … I think the thing is that in different times in your life, different stories will mean different things. So where you might find David really encouraging at one point, you might really love Job at another point. Psalms, I love the Psalms.
(00:44:39):
Sorry, I like all of them.
Sarah Mackenzie (00:44:42):
Ava who’s six, and Eleanor who’s nine, both want to know how long it took you to write it.
Sally L-J (00:44:47):
Yes, so that, I had to research it because it’s so … You have to know the theology. So I listened to lots of teachings and … Because I’m not a theologian, I’m a writer. But I had to make sure I understood it well enough to make it simple without making, without dumbing it down because I didn’t, I wanted to respect you guys, children. And because I know you can understand things, it’s just I have to say it in a way that you can hear it.
(00:45:15):
So I couldn’t rely on jargon, and I couldn’t be saying redemption and sin, without making the effort to make that make sense. Because that doesn’t mean anything if you come at it cold. So anyway, I had to do lots of theological research, but that combined with writing it, it was about a year. But the really long time was after that because then I had to be very involved with the designing.
(00:45:37):
We talked about design earlier. I have a background in art history and art direction because I used to work in publishing. But [inaudible 00:45:44] God’s equipping me to do what He called me to do. I didn’t know it at the time, but it came in very handy. So I knew from my work in publishing how things had to look. And so the book took one year to write. That was in 2004, but it didn’t come out until 2007. So all the other time was the art, and the design, and-
(00:46:03):
So, all the other time was the art and their design and so … But, I’m so grateful for Jago. Again, we wouldn’t even be here if we didn’t have his art.
Sarah Mackenzie (00:46:11):
Yeah. So, it’s so beautiful.
Sally L-J (00:46:13):
It is.
Sarah Mackenzie (00:46:14):
Ben, who’s seven, asks, “At the end of the Jesus Storybook Bible, it says, ‘To be continued.’ What do you mean? Are you writing that?”
Sally L-J (00:46:23):
Well, I didn’t know I was going to say that. And that’s where, again, the story’s cleverer than the writer. So, you sometimes feel when you’re writing, and you might find this, anyone of you who like writing or illustrating, that sometimes you’ll be doing something, and you’ll do something that surprises you.
(00:46:38):
And I sort of feel like you’re writing on this is where you’re writing, but underneath, something else is going on. And you’re not really aware of it. It’s only later when you edit that you start to sort of find out what was really happening. And that’s one of the beautiful things about writing.
(00:46:52):
But, in that instance, I had played with that idea in the beginning of, well, this story in Genesis, if you remember, I say, “Well, this story could’ve ended right here”, and we put ‘The End’. And then we turn the page. That’s an example of the page turn being a really important part of that story. And then we say, “Not in this story.”
(00:47:09):
So, I’d already got this play on the story, and so when I came to that bit and I said … I turned the page, and I thought, “To be continued” because in the Bible, it says, “Come, Lord Jesus”, which means we’re in the in-between but not yet. We’re all ready, but not yet. So, we already … Jesus has come, but we’re in the middle of the story because He’s coming back, and He hasn’t come back yet.
(00:47:32):
So, it isn’t the end of the story. The story goes on, and we’re part of His story. And that’s why I put ‘To be continued’ because you, we’re all part of His story, which is so incredible, isn’t it? That we get to continue His work and share this good news.
(00:47:48):
And so, sometimes I was just blown away by the privilege of being able to translate it into a storybook form. Sometimes, I’d get so overwhelmed, I’d think … I’d actually sit there and say to God, “You know, this is too much. I can’t do it, but you’ve put me in this position. So, unless you do—” I was almost not having a tantrum. “But, you’ve got to help me, God, because I can’t do it. So, unless you do it, it won’t get done.” And then, I’d start writing.
(00:48:13):
But, then I realized, “Oh, I should be doing that with all my books.” And everything we do, and I just share that with you guys because when you’re at school or there’s something happening and you just know you can’t do it, I like that prayer. I’ve been using it a lot. I say, “God, you’ve put me here, so you’ve got to do it. I can’t do it, so you do it.” And then you just go out into your day, and He gives you the strength.
(00:48:35):
So, I think the ‘To be continued’ was part of God answering that prayer. I’m very grateful..
Sarah Mackenzie (00:48:41):
Okay. Ellie’s three. She didn’t have a question. She just wanted to say that she loves you.
Sally L-J (00:48:46):
Well, you see … Okay, going back to medals. They don’t stand a chance with that kind of answer. I’ve had that question before, and it does me in because I love it. I had that from a school, and they said … We were doing question and answers and this and that, and the little girl put her hand up and said, “I love you.” And I just … how could you beat that? You can’t.
Sarah Mackenzie (00:49:07):
No, no. You can’t. Absolutely. Okay, Carolyn [inaudible 00:49:12], she is one of our mom’s, and she’s also a writer, and she says, “Whenever I hear you speak, you say something I find so encouraging and affirming as a writer. Have you ever considered writing a book for children’s writers? Please say yes.”
Sally L-J (00:49:25):
Oh. Well, several people have said that to me. Funnily enough, I have a book coming out in July called Look, I Write a Book. You Can Too. It’s a picture book.
Sarah Mackenzie (00:49:37):
Oh my goodness.
Sally L-J (00:49:37):
It gives you all of the rules of writing, and it’s illustrated my Neal Layton if you know his work. Hysterical Brit. He did The Stick, I think?
Sarah Mackenzie (00:49:47):
Oh, okay.
Sally L-J (00:49:49):
He’s so funny, and I’m excited for it because it’s very funny, but it actually does tell you the rules of writing. You have to know what you’re talking about, so I think it says something like, “You can write any book you like, but here’s what you have to know: what you’re talking about. If you want to write a book about dinosaurs, but you don’t know any good dinosaur words, no one will believe you.” And then, he does a funny illustration.
(00:50:11):
But, it goes through like that, and your story can’t be boring. You can’t write a book about dump trucks and read it to your granny because she’s not interested in dump trucks. So, even though it’s funny, you’re learning the basics of writing, even down to what you put on the back cover, how you sell your book. So, I think you might enjoy that, but I know you weren’t really asking about that. But, I thought about making that my set text when I go and speak places and do writing workshops, that everyone has to read that book, which cracks me up because it’s a picture book.
Sarah Mackenzie (00:50:44):
That’s perfect.
Sally L-J (00:50:47):
We need that book.
Sarah Mackenzie (00:50:47):
It comes out summer? Is that what you said? This summer?
Sally L-J (00:50:49):
Yes.
Sarah Mackenzie (00:50:50):
Oh, okay.
Sally L-J (00:50:51):
And I do have very favorite resources. Like I love … There’s a book called … I’m going to give you work now, Sarah, because you’re going to have to do all these links.
Sarah Mackenzie (00:51:00):
I’m actually giving work to Kara. Sorry, Kara.
Sally L-J (00:51:04):
The first one is Bird by Bird by Anne Lamott. These are for grownups. Sorry, children. But, they’ll be useful to you when you get older. Bird by Bird, Anne Lamott. Brenda Ueland, If You Want to Write, and surprisingly, Stephen King, On Writing, is really good. So, those are my favorite writing books.
(00:51:23):
But, I do do workshops, so I could think about that. Although, I don’t know …
Sarah Mackenzie (00:51:28):
Okay. Let’s see. We’re almost out of time, and I want to make sure we leave time for Mr. Pockles. So, maybe I could just ask one or two quick questions here. Well, yeah. So, I know that a lot of our kids who are attending want to write books, and Isaac, who’s ten, and Silas, who’s fourteen, want to know, “Do you have any advice for young writers? What are your tips for becoming a good writer?”
Sally L-J (00:51:50):
Oh, I’m so excited for you, and thank you for asking. My tip would be don’t let all the nonsense in your head. If you have nonsense like I have in my head, I always wanted to be a writer, but I had big dreams, and at the same time, I had this kind of voice in my head telling me I wasn’t good enough. I’d never be as good as that person. So, if you’ve got that voice happening, I would just say to you, that’s what every writer has. Just don’t even pay attention.
(00:52:16):
Anne Lamott says, and I’ll share this with you. You have to imagine whatever those voices are. They might be a teacher, or they might be someone telling you something. Imaginary, whatever they are. You shrink them down into a jam jar in your mind. Imagine you’re doing that. Screw on the lid, and then you can’t even hear them. They’re just going … This is what Anne Lamott says to grownups, so I just say don’t believe the nonsense that tells you you can’t do it. Just keep showing up. Read, read, read. Keep a notebook, and just keep doing it. And if you love it enough, you’ll do it.
(00:52:50):
I think if the passion’s there and God has planted that in you, I think that will be the key is to do the thing that makes you come alive and that God’s calling you to. So, I think, just keep enjoying it and enjoy the process and don’t worry too much about the future about it.
Sarah Mackenzie (00:53:05):
That’s so wonderful. Okay, one last question about writing, and it’s from Natalie, who’s seven, and she says, “How do you make your words so beautiful?”
Sally L-J (00:53:15):
Oh, Natalie, that’s so sweet. Thank you. Well, the fact that you say that, you must love words. So, I think then, you probably can do the same thing. I think if you love words, you just listen to how they make you feel. What I did was I had favorite writers that I would read all the time. I loved C.S. Lewis, A.A. Milne. I’m giving you all these links now. Winnie the Pooh. I also loved Finn Family Moomintroll. Not a lot of Americans have heard of them.
Sarah Mackenzie (00:53:43):
I haven’t.
Sally L-J (00:53:45):
[inaudible 00:53:45]. One of my favorite books. So, I just … People talk about voice.
Sarah Mackenzie (00:53:50):
Are you the one who told me you liked Edward Lear’s Book of Nonsense?
Sally L-J (00:53:52):
Yes. Edward Lear’s Complete Nonsense. That’s another one. And I think maybe you’re getting at is voice, and that’s something that you develop, and it’s something that just comes organically from who you are. So, I would say you sound like a writer, and you just keep enjoying words and loving them. You can imitate your favorite writers. That’s a good thing to do. Like they did, painters used to imitate their masters, didn’t they? And that’s how they got trained. And then, they found their own voice through the process.
(00:54:21):
But, Mr. Pockles going without a hat was as unthinkable as going around without any pants on. He had a hat for every occasion. An eating cornflakes hat. A having a little sit down hat. A drinking cups of tea hat. An in the bath hat. A going to bed hat. His only sadness was that he couldn’t wear them all at once.
(00:54:50):
There was one hat he never wore because he was too special, and he was saving it for best. Maybe it was because he was too busy with his hats to go out and meet people, or maybe it was because he was terribly shy. But, whatever the reason, poor Mr. Pockles had no friends.
(00:55:09):
Sometimes, he was a little lonesome. You can see that the house looks like a hat, and it’s also called Hat House. But then, he only had to think of his millions of hats and pop one on. “It’s funny how wearing a hat cheers a personage up,” said Mr. Pockles, until one morning when it didn’t.
(00:55:29):
It was hat day at the Panda-Politan Club, and Mr. Pockles desperately wanted to go and show off all his hats, which only pandas were allowed. And pandas, as everyone knows, are very black and white. Either you are a panda or you are not. So, to cheer himself up, Mr. Pockles decided to go to Treat House instead to buy himself a bun. “I shall wear my jaunty hat with a friendly feather,” he said thoughtfully.
(00:55:58):
To his delight, when he got there, Mr. Pockles found it was Bun of the Month day. The buns this month were tasty-licious, fluffy fudge bonnets. As he was waiting in line for his bun of the month, who should walk in but a panda. “It is I, Lady Cucu Fitztulip,” she announced as she sailed to the front of the line.
(00:56:19):
Lady Fitztulip was a fourth-generation San Francisco panda and very important and even had streets named after her. She was wearing the most unusual hat Mr. Pockles had ever seen. He couldn’t stop staring at it.
(00:56:34):
“I’m late for Hat Day at the Panda-Politan club,” she cried, waving an invitation around. “I must start my spring in style.” The shock went violent. Everyone felt depressed. They wanted to start their spring in style too, but they didn’t have any hats, and they weren’t pandas.
(00:56:55):
Meanwhile, certain baby bunnies who’d be waiting in line a long time and were awfully hungry mistook Lady Fitztulip’s hat as a bun of the month and started eating it. Before anyone realized, they’d eaten the bananas, the grapes, were halfway through the pineapple, and had started on the chopsticks.
(00:57:12):
“My ancestral hat,” Lady Fitztulip screamed. “Help, help.” It was too late. The ancestral hat fell to the floor demolished. The baby bunnies lept off the hat and vanished under their mother’s skirt. “What ever shall I do now?” Lady Fitztulip wailed. “It’s Hat Day, and I don’t have a single—” She crumpled into a heap.
(00:57:36):
Everyone rushed around. They picked up her bag. They sat her down. Mr. Pockles even gave her his bun. “Most kind,” said Lady Fitztulip. “Thank you, sir.” “You’re most welcome, madame,” said Mr. Pockles. “My aunt made hats, you see,” she explained through a mouthful of bun. “Oh, how lovely,” said Mr. Pockles. “But, they were all lost in the earthquake.” “Oh, how horrible,” said Mr. Pockles. “And now, I don’t have a single hat,” and she began a loud sobbing again.
(00:58:07):
Everyone hung their heads. Mr. Pockles blinked. It was quite the most awful story he’d ever heard. But then, Mr. Pockles jumped up. “It is I, Mr. Pockles,” he announced. “Lady Fitztulip, we haven’t a moment to lose. Hold on to your hats, everyone.” And even though they didn’t have any hats to hold on to, there was nothing to do but follow Lady Fitztulip and Mr. Pockles all the way to Hat House.
(00:58:36):
Mr. Pockles ran straight upstairs. “Dear Lady Fitztulip,” he said, opening a hat box. “This is—” It was his special hat. It was so beautiful it made all the air go out of the room. He put it on her head and showed it to her in the mirror. “Oh,” she gasped. “Mr. Pockles,” and before Mr. Pockles knew what was happening, Lady Fitztulip picked him up and hugged him.
(00:59:02):
She turned to the door. “We haven’t a moment to lose.” She dropped Mr. Pockles. “Hold on to your hats, everyone.” Where were they going? “To the Panda-Politan Club,” Lady Fitztulip cried. Everyone’s eyes grew huge. “Oh, didn’t I say? Friends of pandas are invited too.” “Friends?” Said Mr. Pockles. “Oh, yes. Of course.”
(00:59:26):
Mr. Pockles stood there stunned as Lady Fitztulip chose the perfect hat for him. The room filled with cheers. Mr. Pockles looked around and laughed. “Your turn, everyone,” he declared. “Choose your hats,” and they did. Even the sun put his hat on.
(00:59:45):
And so it was that Lady Fitztulip got a beautiful new hat, and Mr. Pockles went to Hat Day with all of his hats at once. But even better, with all of his new friends. Just before they entered the Panda-Politan Club, Lady Fitztulip turned, raised her hat, and cheered, “Hat’s off to Mr. Pockles.”
Sarah Mackenzie (01:00:09):
Sally, thank you so much. This has been just too much fun.
Sally L-J (01:00:12):
It’s been way too much fun, and thank you everyone. You’ve asked all those lovely questions, and for all of you checking in, it’s amazing to be … Thank you for your time. It’s been wonderful.
Sarah Mackenzie (01:00:28):
Pretty wonderful, right? Okay, so again, we do these Author Access events in correlation with our Family Book Clubs every single month in RAR Premium. And if this episode was your jam, then you probably want to join us in Premium when we open registration there again. We’re opening up on August 20th. That’s when we open to new members, and we have got an incredible line up for the fall months. You can see the whole thing at rarmembership.com.
(01:00:56):
Our Family Book Clubs for the fall include the Vanderbeeker books by Karina Yan Glaser, and yes, Karina is coming to Author Access. Apples to Oregon by Deborah Hopkinson, Miracle Man by John Hendricks. Yep, they’re both coming. And the Christmas Miracle of Jonathan Toomey with an Author Access by illustrator P.J. Lynch for Christmas time in December. So much good stuff coming your way in a Read-Aloud Revival Premium.
(01:01:21):
Our members don’t call it the best thing they’ve been a part of in their homeschool for nothing. You’re just going to have to give it a try and see what you think.
(01:01:28):
It’s time now for us to hear from the kids, so here are our kids’ recommendations this week.
(01:01:39):
Now it’s time for Let the Kids Speak. This is my favorite part of the podcast, where kids tell us about their favorite stories that have been read aloud to them.
(01:01:52):
What’s your name?
Alora (01:01:52):
Alora.
Sarah Mackenzie (01:01:53):
And how old are you?
Alora (01:01:55):
Six.
Sarah Mackenzie (01:01:56):
And where are you from?
Alora (01:01:58):
California.
Sarah Mackenzie (01:01:59):
And what’s your favorite book?
Alora (01:02:01):
Swiss Family Robinson.
Sarah Mackenzie (01:02:02):
And why do you like that?
Alora (01:02:03):
Because their ship got wrecked in the story and they swam to shore and built a tree house, and they called it the Eagle’s Nest. And then, they lived there for their entire lives.
Sarah Mackenzie (01:02:18):
Ooh. Okay. What’s your name?
Patrick (01:02:21):
Patrick.
Sarah Mackenzie (01:02:21):
And how old are you?
Patrick (01:02:21):
Five.
Sarah Mackenzie (01:02:25):
And where are you from? California?
Patrick (01:02:28):
California.
Sarah Mackenzie (01:02:29):
And what’s your favorite book?
Patrick (01:02:29):
Ninjago. Ninjago.
Sarah Mackenzie (01:02:29):
And why do you like it?
Patrick (01:02:38):
Because they [inaudible 01:02:39].
Stulvy (01:02:41):
Hi. My name is [Stulvy 01:02:42], and my favorite book is My Dragon Masters and My Father’s Dragon. I live in Cody, Wyoming. Bye.
Easton (01:02:52):
Hello. My name is Easton Hartley. I am ten years old. I live in Cody, Wyoming. My favorite book is the Boba Fett series. My favorite part about the book is when Boba Fett gets captured on Raxus Prime by the Republic and pretends that he is an orphan.
Amethyst (01:03:14):
Hello. My name Amethyst Hartley. I live in Cody, Wyoming, and I am eight years old. My favorite book is the Silver Chair from the Chronicles of Narnia. My favorite part was when Eustace, Jill, and Puddleglum rescued Sir Prince.
Michael (01:03:38):
Hi. My name is Michael Hale, and I am nine years old, and I live in Fairview, Alberta, Canada. And my favorite book we read aloud is Wingfeather Saga by Andrew Peterson. And I like it because there’s a lot of hilariousness.
Nathan (01:03:55):
My name is Nathan Hale, and I’m seven years old, and I live in Fairview, Alberta, Canada. My favorite book is Boys of Blur by N.D. Wilson. Why? Because it has a bunch of creatures and fun stuff.
Riley (01:04:10):
Hi. My name is Riley. I am ten years old, and I live in Virginia. My favorite book is the Penderwicks. I like the Penderwicks because they are a loving family, and their hearts get bigger and bigger, and the Vanderbeekers is a lot like the Penderwicks. They’re just a [inaudible 01:04:24] family that go on endless adventures.
Hazel (01:04:28):
My name is Hazel, and I’m eight years old. And my favorite book series that I have been read aloud to me is the Wingfeathers Saga by Andrew Peterson, and I like going adventuring.
Sarah Mackenzie (01:04:41):
And where are you from?
Hazel (01:04:42):
Oh, and I’m from Spokane, Washington.
Madeline (01:04:45):
My name is Madeline. I’m six years old. I live in Spokane, Washington. My favorite book that has been read aloud to me is EJ12.
Sarah Mackenzie (01:04:55):
By Susannah—
Madeline (01:04:56):
By Susannah McFarland. And my favorite part about it is that she goes on lots of adventures, and she’s a spy.
Sarah Mackenzie (01:05:04):
And what about you? What’s your name?
Speaker 1 (01:05:06):
I’m [inaudible 01:05:07].
Sarah Mackenzie (01:05:08):
How old are you?
Speaker 1 (01:05:08):
I’m four.
Sarah Mackenzie (01:05:14):
And where are you from?
Speaker 1 (01:05:16):
Spokane, Washington. And my favorite book is Slop Book.
Sarah Mackenzie (01:05:21):
I Really Like Slop by Mo Willems.
Speaker 1 (01:05:25):
Mo Willems.
Sarah Mackenzie (01:05:25):
So, what do you like about it?
Speaker 1 (01:05:29):
The elephant tries slop.
Sarah Mackenzie (01:05:32):
Yeah, you think that’s funny?
Speaker 1 (01:05:35):
Yeah.
Sarah Mackenzie (01:05:35):
What’s your name?
Nate (01:05:36):
Nate.
Sarah Mackenzie (01:05:37):
Where are you from, Nate?
Nate (01:05:39):
[inaudible 01:05:39], California.
Sarah Mackenzie (01:05:42):
What’s your favorite book?
Nate (01:05:45):
The Boy, a Dog, and a Frog.
Sarah Mackenzie (01:05:45):
A Boy, a Dog, and a Frog. Why is that your favorite book?
Nate (01:05:50):
Because the boy [inaudible 01:05:51] into the water.
Sarah Mackenzie (01:05:55):
In the water. How old are you?
Nate (01:05:57):
Three.
Sarah Mackenzie (01:06:00):
Thank you kids. So good. Hey, I’ll be back in two weeks with another episode of the podcast. For now, don’t forget you can grab the free Family Book Club Guide for Goldfish on Vacation and see the video of this episode at readaloudrevival.com/134 or you can just text RAR to the number 33777.
(01:06:24):
And I think that’s it. Until next time, go make meaningful and lasting connections with your kids through books.
